Julie Giannini-Previde: Developing people and really giving them both the training and the feedback and the positive reinforcement so that they can feel good about the jobs they’re doing is vital. And so I really am thinking a lot about my leadership team and how I can develop them.

Intro

[Intro music plays in the background.]

Janet Pilcher: Hello everyone, welcome to the Accelerate Your Performance podcast where we focus on hardwiring excellence to create great places to work, learn, and succeed.

I’m your host, Janet Pilcher, and today I welcome Julie Giannini-Previde. Julie is the superintendent of McKinley Union School District in Northern California. Previously she’s held the roles of teacher, principal, and district data coordinator, but her tenure with McKinleyville goes back to her own days there as a student. Julie brings a uniquely personal and long-standing dedication to her role. I’m eager for you to hear how she started her continuous improvement journey, her vision for the future, and the values that guide her leadership. So let’s dive in.

Interview

Janet Pilcher: It’s with great pleasure that I welcome Julie to our show today. Julie, welcome.

Julie Giannini-Previde: Thank you.

Janet Pilcher: It’s great to have you here, and not too long ago in October we were together in What’s Right in Education and there you spoke about your experience on just starting. And you shared that you started with rounding, and you know, Julie, rounding is, is one of our most popular tactics, and people get a lot out of that. So Casey shared with us that you round with employees and parents and caregivers, so talk a little bit about how you started that and tell us a little bit about what you’re learning along the way.

Julie Giannini-Previde: Yeah, so for us we had attended the Carnegie Foundation for many years, the summit on education as part of our work with the S.H. Cowell Foundation and so we’ve been using some rounding for many years, mostly our instructional coaches. As a principal I had used rounding, especially during COVID. It was such a great way, you know, in a quick Zoom meeting to understand how things were going for people and what their experience was.

I think the thing for me about rounding that I knew was the way that I always come away with a little nugget of something, no matter what. It’s so quick and I always find a problem, oftentimes, that I can fix before I even get back to my office, which I love about it. Or just some powerful insight from folks in our organization who can see kind of the dark corners of my organization that I don’t see every day.

So it felt like a really good way for us to jump in, and it felt like a practice we could pick up pretty quickly. We’ve expanded it out significantly, and in fact, this year we had every teacher round with every parent during fall conferences and then actually reported back out to families in a stoplight report for each school site what we heard and what we’re doing to address their concerns. So there’s some feedback on that. I think there’s some, you know, some ways that we can make that work better for our teachers and ways that we can make it more powerful for families, but it has been really beneficial to get that feedback from folks.

Janet Pilcher: You know, I wish more people would do, more leaders would do what you just said, you know, and that is get teachers or even some of their leaders to round with parents because, and you’re right, you just start and you do it the first time and you learn and you’ll get better and better or figure out how you want to do it in particular ways.

But the value, we think about doing rounding with our employees, but I really do think the value of rounding with parents gives us some good feedback. So did you, did you get good information like information you thought, “Gosh, that’s really, if I wouldn’t have asked, you know, then we wouldn’t have known that.” Anything that you got in that initial feedback that was good information?

Julie Giannini-Previde: I think there were certain things that we knew. We had switched communication systems this year. I knew I was going to get a heavy hit on that. I knew people were going to be unhappy with that, but then being able to report back to them, “we heard you. We know. These are the things we’re doing to make it better.” So that was powerful. Yeah.

And then lots of little tiny things that, you know, you just don’t think about how our systems impact parents, especially I think for our parents of littles. You know, they’re just entering the system. They don’t necessarily understand it. They’re bringing all of their own experiences, whether that’s positive or negative, into the space. And so understanding what they don’t understand about our system has been really powerful. Like how are we not only expecting them to operate in our system, but then educating them about how it works?

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, I love that. And, you know, as you’re thinking about seeking out that feedback from your employees and parents, what about, how has it affected the culture? I mean, thinking about how the parents are perceiving you, think about how your employees are perceiving you, you know, what has it had as an impact to your culture?

Julie Giannini-Previde: Yeah, I, you know, I thought about this question so long, because I’m in my third year as superintendent. It’s my 26th year in the district. I actually attended schools in this district as a child. And we’re in a really hard place. So COVID money’s gone. The California state budget was terrible this year, like much lower than we had anticipated. We are in declining enrollment in our district.

So, you know, I call it the trifecta of terribleness. There’s a lot of budget stuff that we’re facing right now. We’re still in negotiations, so my teachers are working without a contract. Those are all really hard things, and people are understandably unhappy with the consequences of all of those things.

And so I think for me, the impact is five years ago, I would have been running around trying to make people happy.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah.

Julie Giannini-Previde: Right. Like cookies and lunches and “whatever I can do to make you happy.”

Janet Pilcher: [laughs]

Julie Giannini-Previde: “I’ll take over your class. Like how can I make you happy?” And I don’t think those things are completely wrong. I mean, sometimes those things are great. But I feel like in these hard times, it’s helping me focus and be constructive and listen to feedback that sometimes is really hard.

Our employee experience survey this year is much worse than our employee experience survey last year. And I expected that to some extent. We’re in negotiations. Those have been really hard. Our class sizes have gone up as a result of, you know, the loss of COVID funds. So I expected that.

But, you know, like with Casey as our coach, it is really helpful to get inclusive feedback from everyone and then wade through it for the feedback that’s constructive.

Janet Pilcher: Yes.

Julie Giannini-Previde: So not just the “I love you; you’re great.” Or the “everything’s terrible” feedback. But like, where are the pieces of feedback where we can really make a difference within the constraints of all kinds of budget hardship to make our employees lives better and our kids’ lives better? Yeah.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah. And it’s, sometimes we do look at those results and look at the numbers, you know, but you’ve probably heard me say in multiple circumstances, it’s really the content of the question that we’re focusing on to get the input to have a better understanding of what we can do to improve. And sometimes it’s, to me, Julie, it’s not even that overall mean. It may be looking beginning, you’ll, as you do it more often, you’ll begin to see that trend data. So there may be areas where you’re trending up, some places where you’re trending down, but the question becomes, “are we trending up in the right places?” and, “are—where we’re trending down? Could some of the external factors be affecting that? And then how do we manage to it?” Right?

It’s really looking at that plus the rounding feedback and the triangulation that gives you the insight. And what I really like what you’re saying is, you know, it’s that feedback that we look at that helps us not just go out and just try to put a band-aid on or fix it or do something that we feel like can just solve it right away, but get underneath the hood, so to speak, and really figure it out. Does that make sense to you?

Julie Giannini-Previde: It really does. I mean, I think it, you know, the sort of breadth of feedback, you know, rounding and surveys, employee experience surveys, but then other surveys, some empathy interviews, just kind of having, we have a whole calendar of input from families and staff and students.

And sort of having that breadth of feedback, it is pushing us to think in terms of next year and five years and 10 years, which is something missing from our district for a long time. I think we get so caught up in year to year, because our budgets are so year to year.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah.

Julie Giannini-Previde: And the legislature makes things so, you know, the next thing de jour for education. And so we just get caught up in this really fast cycle of planning, but having that feedback is really that consistent feedback and that breath of feedback is pushing us to think where do we want our organization to be in 10 years?

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, so good. Nice work, Julie. I mean, nice work really triangulating that information and leading from that. You know, at What’s Right in Education, you also on the panel, you shared some excellent advice with our attendees on just starting where they are. We hear ourselves say that.

I hear sometimes I have to say that to myself, “just start where you are, you know, and grab hold for a little bit.” But you look at the cadre of the willing as well. So, would you mind just resharing and expanding a little bit about what you were talking about here?

Julie Giannini-Previde: This is kind of an idea that I brought forward through my career. I taught middle school for 13 years. And, like, I’ve considered myself a teacher leader, I was excited to try new things. One of my colleagues calls me a shark. And I was offended at first about that, but he said, “no, no, no, you can’t breathe unless you move forward.” But I know that that is not the case for most other people and that change is really scary and hard.

And so we’ve really relied on pilot programs. So taking an idea and starting small. And when I talk about a cadre of the willing, I think there’s two groups that fall in there that are super important.

One is our folks that are excited about everything. They’re just trying to go and they’re like me, hand up, always end up. And I love people like that. I appreciate them. But I think the other thing about a cadre of the willing is when you can find that person who isn’t necessarily a hand up kind of person, but who’s interested in the problem of practice. Right?  And so putting those folks together bringing in somebody who might be a little bit more reticent to try something new or to advocate for change, but bringing them into that group of folks who are excited to try something new to change to iterate around a problem of practice. I think that can be really powerful too. So creating little teams with excitement and passion for a topic. And it just becomes harder and harder for the rest of the staff to say no when they hear their colleagues saying, “this is working. This is so great.”

Janet Pilcher: Yeah. And, you know, when we think about engagement, you know, going back to bringing the cookies and things like that that you were talking about, that what you’re doing right now is really how we engage people. You know, I mean, when they’re when they’re solving problems, when they’re looking at, when they’re trying something, where they’re looking at what’s working what’s not working and having that conversation, they are engaged and they’re, they’re not being told what to do so to speak. They’re able to try that. So I love it just starting with, if you went in and said, “here’s what we’re going to do across the board,” it probably wouldn’t work so well, right? [laughs]

Julie Giannini-Previde: [laughs] I still try it. I still get sucked into it. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve done it plenty. But you know, like thinking about Hattie’s work and collective efficacy and the impact of collective efficacy. I think about collective efficacy all the time. I think those are the most exciting spaces for me to be in when we’re really like grappling together with people who are excited to grapple with it.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah.

Julie Giannini-Previde: And solve a problem and have an idea and see it succeed or fail, but learn from it. Like, I love those spaces and I feel like everywhere we can create those is just so valuable for our organization.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, so good. You know, we’ve talked about leaders, we’ve talked about teachers. We also do a lot of work with staff. They’re a very important part of our organization, our school districts. And I know you’re excited about them, continuous improvement effort and with your classified staff. So what do you anticipate that that will look like as you move forward?

Julie Giannini-Previde: I think we all know that our machines don’t run without our classified staff. And in my case, they’re about two thirds of our staff. You know, if we include before and after school care and food service and bus drivers and all of those folks.

And I can see a real divide between our units, especially around student behavior. So as our certificated staff move toward more inclusive practices, toward restorative practices with students, sometimes I think our classified staff feel like we’re letting kids get away with things, right? They’re operating from a different set of understanding. And so I really see that divide. I see the way that it can get in the way of us creating environments where kids truly feel like they belong, that all kids, all identities can really feel like they belong in our schools. So I feel like, you know, bridging that gap is part of that work. But I also think they’re two thirds of our organization.

Janet Pilcher: Yes.

Julie Giannini-Previde: It’s just a math problem. We can go 66% faster, if I bring these folks along, and that just feels super exciting to me. That number, you know, sits in my head often.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah.

Julie Giannini-Previde: 66% faster. I want to do that.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, so good. And, you know, when we look holistically across where we spend our time in school districts, not with you all, but in general in school districts, we don’t really spend as much time, you know, with that 66%. Right. I mean, it—

Julie Giannini-Previde: And some of them are such dedicated people. Go above and beyond. They are honestly, in many cases, they’re just so willing to be flexible and to pivot based on whatever a kid needs. They stay late. They help with extra things. I mean, they’re really dedicated to our organization and to our kids and our families. Many of them are parents. You know, they really have insight into how our system really works for families. So I think ignoring two thirds of our organization who have so much to offer would just be silly.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, good point. So as we close today, you know, you’ve been in your district for quite a while, and now you’re leading it. And as you think about where you are now as the leader, and you think about the work that you’re doing and just the work that we do collectively with leaders and superintendents, you know, what’s most important to you as a leader? What do you offer to people to say, you know what, as a leader, this is where I am now. This is really what’s important to me.

Julie Giannini-Previde: I think increasingly, I think building our people is so vital to me. I think I can’t ever give people the money they’re worth in public education. I’m never going to make the job as easy as folks might want it to be. But growing people is so vital to me and just thinking about, especially our work with Studer around leadership development.

I think so often, the whole time I was a principal, 13 years, I went to conferences for teachers to help my teachers be. But the truth of the matter is, although being a teacher helped me understand who I was leading, there’s really nothing about being a teacher that helped me be a principal. And not even a lot about being a principal that informed what I would have to do as a superintendent.

And so I think understanding that just because somebody works in our system, we’re really asking them to do a wholly different job. And that’s true across so many parts of our organization where we ask, you know, a playground monitor to become inclusion paraprofessional. Like, those are really different jobs with really different skill sets. And so I think developing people and really giving them both the training and the feedback and the positive reinforcement so that they can feel good about the jobs they’re doing is vital. And so I really am thinking a lot about my leadership team and how I can develop them. I’m thinking a lot about teachers and, you know, teachers often feel very, the training is dropped on them.

Janet Pilcher: Yes

Julie Giannini-Previde: Whether they want it or not, whether they feel like they need it or not, or any of those things. And so really thinking carefully and taking feedback about what do you really need. And then, you know, sometimes what I think I need from the spot I’m in isn’t the thing that the system needs, but at least explaining myself, explaining why we made this other decision.

Janet Pilcher: Yeah, so good. And, you know, just your people are lucky to have you. And I think, you know, lucky because of what you bring to the table as a leader, your willingness to continue to grow and develop as a leader and continue to provide that back to your team.

But just kind of really neat, Julie, that you’re in the place where you taught and that you’re at that position to lead it. I live and I now live, I’m in my hometown. So this is, Pensacola’s where I was born and raised, and had an opportunity initially after teaching come back and I was in my University of West Florida, which is my hometown university and can contribute to my community holistically. And there’s a special, I don’t know if you feel, but there’s just that special feeling there. Don’t you, you know,

Julie Giannini-Previde: Yeah, I can’t even tell you how many parents I’ll get on a phone call and say, you know, talk to them about whatever I need to talk to them about and then they’ll shyly say to me, “Are you Miss G? Did you teach 8^th grade?” You know, it’s so sweet. It’s so sweet to stand at kindergarten information night and have former students just, you know, come give me a bear hug and be excited to come back. So yeah, feels really good.

Janet Pilcher: Well, thank you for your time today. Thank you for your leadership and just really appreciate you and what you contribute to our profession. Thank you, Julie.

Julie Giannini-Previde: Janet, thank you so much.

Conclusion

[Outro music plays in the background.]

Janet Pilcher: Starting something new can be intimidating. But as Julie mentioned, launching pilot programs and engaging both the eager and the hesitant yet willing people can create such powerful momentum. Thank you, Julie, for your leadership and dedication to developing your people.

Growing and developing your people is always a sound investment. Thank you, Julie, for recognizing this and dedicating yourself to the leaders, students, families and employees who rely on your support and the support that you provide to your team to engage with students and their families to create the best experience for them.

If this episode resonates with you, I invite you to read my book Hardwiring Excellence in Education, which dives even deeper into the Nine Principles. Chapter four is all about developing your leaders so they can develop others. So visit studereducation.com/hardwiringexcellence to get your copy, and we’ll also include access to a self-paced book study that’s perfect for personal growth or team development. In fact, we’re running a special as we hit the holiday season, or as we’re in, where it seems so close and around the corner. And I know you all are getting excited for the time that you’ll have hopefully spending with family and friends to enjoy this time. So connect with us at StuderEducation.com/HardwiringExcellence.

And as always, I thank you for tuning in today. I look forward to connecting with you next time as we build upon the Nine Principles Framework to hardwire excellence in education. Next week, I’ll come on with our last episode for the year. So look forward to seeing you and connecting with you then. Have a great week, everyone.